FluentCart - It's not 100% EU compliant

Shahjahan Jewel thanks Shahjahan, I know how annoying and complicated the EU can be but I’ve run 2 ecomm stores here for 6 years and so I know what hurdles I had to jump over 😂

Shahjahan Jewel Great that it is in progress and will hopefully work soon.
I would like to add that the payment options you offer in the free version are both US based. I am sure I am not the only one that would like to be able to use a European based option, like Mollie in a free version. (Same for Fforms btw)

Shahjahan Jewel the handling of value-added tax (VAT) in digital business is very complex in Europe and the EU.

As it is currently implemented, it does not comply with legal requirements.

This issue will prevent 95% of potential Fluent Card users from using Fluent Card for their business.

Please seek professional advice and address this matter as soon as possible to make the product attractive to customers in the EU.

Another major issue is the creation of electronic invoices (e-invoices).

Since January 1, 2025, e-invoicing has been mandatory for B2B transactions. This feature is also not yet implemented in Fluent Card, which will discourage many businesses from using it.

Please note that these two aspects are essential for online shop operators, as failure to comply can result in very high penalties.

The WooCommerce plugin “Germanized” solves all of these problems for WooCommerce shops.

Shahjahan Jewel In Romania, e-invoices are now required for all transactions (B2B and B2C), except for those to customers in other countries.

The easy solution would be to have the option to disable native invoices in FluentCart and integrate a third-party invoicing provider that handles all legal requirements, including e-invoices, e-shipping, SAF-T, etc.

In Romania, oblio.eu is a great invoicing provider with an extensive API. Perhaps you could work with them to develop such an integration.

Hello Shahjahan Jewel and Shayne Thomas 

The post is completely spot on (and quite related to the feedback Part III y posted last week).

As Shayne said, under the EU VAT Directive (2006/112/EC), intra-EU B2B transactions must be treated as VAT-exempt reverse-charge supplies, not simply “0% VAT.”

So the system should recalculate the net base price (e.g. €10 incl. VAT → €8.10 at 19%) and display a clear note such as:

“Reverse charge – VAT exempt”

That said, the way this appears depends on whether the store is configured as “tax included” or “tax excluded”- and that’s precisely where the edge case lies.

As we discussed earlier with the team (and as @nvanruykom noted):

• In B2B setups, where prices are normally tax-excluded, everything works correctly.
• In B2C setups, where prices are tax-included by design, the reverse-charge mechanism shouldn’t apply - except when the buyer identifies as a business with a valid VIES VAT ID, in which case the transaction must convert dynamically to B2B (net + reverse-charge notice).

As mentioned in Feedback – Part III (link), the correct implementation should always:

✅ show the full net/VAT breakdown, and

✅ include the reverse-charge reference when applicable.

Perhaps the ideal approach - as we also suggested - would be to keep the current global tax mode (included or excluded), while allowing merchants to override it per product.

This flexibility is essential for stores selling to both B2C and B2B audiences.

Also to note…, SureCart originally supported that per-product tax mode but later removed it in favor of global settings. For mixed-model merchants, that level of control is critical.

In short: the logic is correct - it just needs that extra flexibility so B2C and B2B sellers can both stay 100% compliant without workarounds :)

Still need to check the currents update son my side though!

Jorge de los Reyes Yay! This is spot on!!! Thank you!!! I get the confusion here as it's not often a business is both B2C and B2B. But I also imagine Plugin Sellers and the like are also B2B and B2C. There's lots of private people who are just running websites privately and not making coins off of them.

Instead of doing it on a per product basis, what about if we did the following:

• User can choose to display Prices including or excluding Tax (as it is)

• Another choice option, "Do you sell to both B2B and B2C customers?"; "Yes/no" (or even choose between B2C, B2B and Both).

• If yes, then the logic would be as follows:

  • All prices displayed are Gross (including Tax)
  • If customer puts in Valid VAT ID from another EU member country, Net price is displayed on checkout and charged.

I can imagine it must be cumbersome if a store has 100s of products to manually go and adjust them. This way, I think there could be a system that would just reroute the logic based on the "yes/no" answer above.

Jorge de los Reyes Natascha Vantuykom - Have a look at Jorge de los Reyes 's reply.

Shayne Thomas sadly, a global “tax included”, won’t be suitable for most B2B workflows.

maybe a similar Logic to categories or alike could work.

Let’s leave this to the team. They already know the material part. And we have to take into account that it also needs to fit technically 😄

I’m sure they are already aware.

But of course, this debate is a must! So thank you for bringing it to the table!

Jorge de los Reyes @Shayne Thomas great summary and addition, however I would add another element, which is when we sell worldwide in multi-currency (what we do). In that case, even if we sell B2C, we don't want the VAT to be included, because it will put off US customers who don't have to pay VAT, but might have to pay their own sales tax, which varies depending on their state. The amount of tax doesn't depend only on where the business selling online is located, but also where the customer is located.

So currently we have all the prices in our online store set excluding any VAT and sales tax, as we have no way to know what should be added depending on the customer's location.

Paddle is set to add the relevant VAT/tax depending on the user location (VAT in the UK or EU, sales tax in the US or any other part of the world that needs to).

If a business customer enters a valid EU VAT number, then the EU VAT is deducted and the sales is made under the reverse charge mechanism (which should be speficied on the zero VAT rated invoice), but if it's a UK business customer, the VAT is NOT deducted even if they enter a valid UK VAT number, as they can claim it back through their VAT return.

Shahjahan Jewel All this is extremely complex, and it's imperative that FluentCart implements this properly before customers can switch to it. Luckily, we can use Paddle, so we know that all the tax questions will be handled properly. Please just make sure that it's possible to enter all the prices without any VAT, so that Paddle can handle adding the relevant VAT and sales tax, when relevant, as well as issuing the correct invoice. We don't want Fluentcart to issue any invoice in that case, as that can only be done properly by Paddle (which acts as a Merchant of Record and issues all the invoices to the customer). We sell wholesale to Paddle excluding VAT, and they handle each sale specifically for each customer, hence issue the invoice (the sale is from them, not from us). So please make sure it's possible to disable invoicing (we don't use EDD to send any invoice, again it's done by Paddle).

Paddle also allows to choose if we want the price that we have for each product to be considered including tax or excluding tax, which is great as it gives flexibility, but that happens on Paddle's side.

What would be also great would be to have separate settings for services without live human interaction (self-led online courses for example) and services with live human interaction (online courses with a live element such as group work, Q&As etc). Paddle can only handle the former (no human element), so if Fluentcart was able to handle online courses with a live human interaction, it would allow us to sell them (currently we can't). HOWEVER, the VAT rules are not the same for these (VAT doesn't have to be charged when there is a live human interaction, depending on the country of the seller and the country of the buyer, so that's another different set of questions.

Please not that if FluentCart doesn't behave as a Merchant of Record (like Paddle), the seller also has to report all the sales (for example through the one-stop-shop / MOSS mechanism). How does FluentCart help the seller to produce the reports that have to be included with this legally mandatory reporting? It's one thing for the seller to charge the correct amount (with/without VAT and sales tax), it's another one entirely to comply with the VAT reporting rules in each country and paying the right amount of VAT collected to the authorities (it's not for the seller to keep!).

That's one of the reasons why we are using Paddle. It's just too complicated for a small business to deal with all these rules and reporting. When using a Merchant of Record like Paddle, we let them handle all the headaches regarding not only how much tax/sales tax to charge to each customer depending on B2B, B2C and the customer's location, but also they deal with all the VAT reporting, payment and compliance. We are selling with no VAT wholesale to Paddle, a single company in Ireland under the reverse charge mechanism. For us, it's always B2C, there is never any VAT or sales tax involved, and we never collect any VAt or sales tax that we then need to report and pay to the authorities. Easy, no headache, and the whole legal and tax burden is on Paddle.

For FluentChart to act as a Merchant of Record would be fantastic, but that's a whole new business and you'll need to hire specialised tax experts, as the legislation changes all the time and involves hundreds of different rules, for each different country.

I hope this helps!

Natascha Vantuykom Hi Natascha, thanks. Yes, so it's doing the same for me on my side. However, I am displaying my prices "including" tax. As I am not only selling to B2B, but also B2C. It's software for photographers (so there's hobbyists and professionals). In this case, we display the prices including Tax (with a VAT declaration), and then on checkout - the customer, if supplying a valid VAT ID and is external to the store location, should only pay the NET amount of that price.

Shahjahan Jewel I hope this is a bit more clear?

Shayne Thomas so, you just want a label 'VAT reverse charged' under total when this applies?
What I see for the rest it works as expected, not?

Natascha Vantuykom Not quite. So in my example, the first price (139) is shown when a customer is checking out normally. B2C for example. The second one (116,01) is the total price being paid and charged when the customer puts in their VAT ID (and its valid). So in essence, they pay less as a business than as a B2C because of the agreement within the EU.

In your case, you have chosen to display prices excluding Tax. So 100€ would be 119€ on checkout. But that is not compliant in EU as all prices, in the shop for B2C, need to INCLUDE Tax. On the product pages, the price should be 119€. If they put in their VAT, it should remove the 19€, and charge them only 100€.

Shayne Thomas I really don't see the issue (sorry 🙈) you can select how to show prices in the shop entered with or without tax...

Natascha Vantuykom :D Im sorry for the confusion. I dont know how else to explain it. Let me try again:

• I am selling to B2C, and B2B. EU law states that whenever we sell to B2C, displayed prices in the shop must be including tax (vat).
• For this reason, I chose to display my prices including TAX.
• My prices display at 139€ including VAT. Perfect.

Now, what happens when a B2B customer comes to my shop and wants to purchase under their business name with VAT.

• B2B Customer comes, see's the listed prices including VAT in the store. Adds products to their cart and proceeds to the checkout page.
• B2B Customer fills out the checkout form, and puts their VAT ID into the box. It is valid. VAT is removed from the checkout price.
• The total checkout price, now without VAT, should be €116.01.

That is the correct way.

Your way, and what is currently happening is the following:

• B2B customer adds product to their cart, goes to checkout. Total being displayed is 139€
• B2B fills out all information, including their valid VAT, but now - price is STILL 139€. And only a declaration of "Vat reverse charge applied". This is wrong.

This only works if you display your prices EXCLUDING tax. When you have a business that is selling only to B2B, then that makes sense.

A B2B customer, upon entering their VAT ID on checkout in a store where prices are INCLUDING Tax, must be charged & pay ONLY the NET amount. €116.01 in this case for example.

Haha. I really dont know how else to explain this. To me, it's pretty simple and straight forward. The logic to me is:

If customer has = Valid VAT ID, then return 'Net Product Price' on checkout. Thats it :P Im so sorry for all of this. But this is a huge blocking point, not only for me - but for everyone in the EU that caters to both B2B and B2C.

Natascha Vantuykom This is a (Browser translated) snippet from Woocommerce Germanized that points out exactly what Im trying to do. Deduct the VAT before purchase (even when the price includes the TAX) (https://vendidero.de/doc/woocommerce-germanized/umsatzsteuer-id-check)

Shayne Thomas I just tested on your site, on checkout, price including VAT is shown, that is correct, not?
When I add my VAT number, price is shown WITHOUT VAT, that is how it should be, not?
So I do not see what is not working here (sorry again, just trying to help)

Natascha Vantuykom Yes! Thats right! So, before you put in the VAT - you saw the total price = 139€ right? Then, in your second screenshot after you put in your VAT, the total price dropped to = €116,81.

Thank you for your time Natascha! You're very helpful :)

Shayne Thomas yes, that is correct

But then what part is not working for you?

Natascha Vantuykom In FluentCart - if I put in a valid VAT Id from an another Eu country (i.e Belgium), the total price does not change to €116,81. It stays at €139.00 - That part. Thats wrong.

Shayne Thomas look at my screenshots, the price actually does change when I put in my Belgian vat number. Try to test it incognito

Natascha Vantuykom rootspresets.com is currently using Woocommerce & Woo Germanized. Its not FluentCart set up there already

Shayne Thomas aaaa okay, please share your FLuentCart site, then I test there

Natascha Vantuykom If you load up a demo of FluentCart and try the same thing, its not working. Roots Presets is a live site - I wouldn't install FluentCart on it just yet

Natascha Vantuykom Here is a demo of FluentCart. I have put in the VAT number, and the price is 100€ when it should, in fact, be 100-19% (€81)

Correction - I believe Belgium rate is 21%. But doesn't matter. It should still remove it from that Total price

Shayne Thomas you are correct, just tried on my testsite and it is a bug.
I was totally confused thinking the site that you shared was on FluentCart

Natascha Vantuykom Oh sorry about that. a Crucial bit of information that I left out. Glad to see that you spotted it too. perhaps you can pass this on to the team and get it looked at ASAP since it's quite a crucial thing to be compliant here in the EU.

Shayne Thomas Jewel is on it

Shahjahan Jewel Jorge de los Reyes - Natascha confirmed its a bug & can replicate it on her end.

Natascha Vantuykom Legend! <3 Thank you so much Natascha!

Shayne Thomas :-) you are welcome

Shayne Thomas (not sure why I can't seem to be able to reply to your post, sorry) Whether it's 19% or 21%, that's not the way to calculate the excl. VAT price (substracting the VAT rate from the incl. VAT price).

The actual amount is the amount such as when the VAT is added, you obtain the inc. VAT number, so in this case the excl. VAT price is 84.83 euros, not 81 euros. Heere is how it works:

To calculate the amount excluding VAT, you must divide the total price (including VAT) by 1 plus the VAT rate. 

Here is the formula and calculation:

• Formula: Price excluding VAT = Price including VAT / (1 + VAT Rate)
• VAT Rate as a decimal: 19% = 0.19
• Calculation: 100 / (1 + 0.19) = £100 / 1.19
• Result: 84.03 (rounded to two decimal places) 

The amount excluding VAT is 84.03 Euros

Screenplay Unlimited right! I think i just threw in some random numbers here as an example. Woo Germanized handles it accurately fortunately

Shayne Thomas yes, so does Paddle :)

Theo Pleasure. I was really hoping that this wouldn't have been an issue. I know it's annoying but WooGermanized does it perfectly. I would LOVE it if they made FluentGermanized. Maybe we can bug them to do it?

Shayne Thomas You've taken the first step, my friend - thank you - I have faith they'll come through, thumbs up.

Theo Im sure they will - especially that this was brought up so soon. I had this back and forth with SureCart until they basically just told me to "F off" haha. Not directly but they just shrugged their shoulders.

@shaynetphotoThank you for the information! How can they! It's surprising how many Europeans must still be using SureCart.

André Daus +1