Can we agree on this sentiment?
The closer we can get Fluent Community to be a replacement for mainstream social media, THE MORE WE WILL LOVE IT!
I'd like to assume this is a sentiment we all want to push for. A move off of big media.
We can only truly do this with the support of the WP Ninja team, unless we all want fragmented Frankenstein setups.
For me this was one of the reasons to have my own community. I did not want to rely on Facebook groups and pages anymore. Never build your brand on rented land 😉
Gee Adriaansz sure thing, why rent when you can own...
Gee Adriaansz Amen!
Gee Adriaansz Yes - I've read about so many who have left FB as their community platform and moved over to Mighty Networks etc.
"Frankenstein setups" is actually one of my biggest concerns with FC.
The only way to really grow a community that comes anything close to mainstream social media platforms is for it to be mobile first.
It's been that way for nearly 15 years. It's why Instagram took off. Not only was it mobile first, it was only available on iOS for many years which placed it in the hands of people with the higher incomes needed to afford iPhones back then.
The Fluent Community product is a good one but the other company Fluent is collaborating with for their mobile app is called "Lazy Coders" and so far their mobile app for FC does not look promising.
Fluent Community obviously meets a need, I love it.
But I think that's only possible because I don't expect it to be all things to all people the way social media platforms are these days.
It's a specific tool for a specific job.
H Media I agree with the sentiment for the most part. The "official" mobile app being shared does not look promising either from my perspective, hence my previous poll on what people actual want from a mobile app. Doesnt look like the current method is checking those boxes.
Regarding FluentCommunity, I think it 100% can be a private social media competitor, just not in the same way people are accustom too.
For this to be true though, we are missing a few CRITICAL CORE features. Easy video uploading is one of them, mobile app is a huge, better notifications, followers, analytics, etc.
Some of that may be a little more luxury, but I think FluentCommunity is in a very unique spot, especially where we are at with censorship in the world, to shine as a privately owned social alternative.
Ryan Alier I agree but we should not forget these plugins are pretty new. The team does a great job and I really feel they listen to their members. Without us customers, they are nothing, and without them, I personally I would still be on a quest for the perfect ecosystem 😂 It's amazing what they accomplished in such a short time so the future is bright!
Ryan Alier likewise, I agree with the need for alternatives to mainstream social media platforms.
The reason they became mainstream in the first place is because they make things absurdly easy for the greatest number of people possible.
Fluent Community was born because the team here was using Circle and they loved it. Then they decided to build their own version.
It's the same reason many of their products came to be, like Boards, Support, Affiliate and now Cart.
The reason I mention it is because they didn't set out to build a social network replacement - it was and still is mainly a tool for them to collaborate internally with a relatively small team - and it's good at doing that.
But if you keep that in mind and consider their internal roadmap for the product it's hard to see it going in the direction of what you described.
Gee Adriaansz +1 on this.
I think we are in a unique / tough spot where the Fluent Ecosystem really shines for us and brings everything together, but then we have some more nuanced areas that could use more love, and or clarity.
As much as we are being listened to, I think there could be a little more urgency should X number of members request an item. I don't think it should take months for a highly requested feature to become available.
Just an example, but Web push notifications were requested almost 1 year ago. https://community.wpmanageninja.com/fluentcommunity-roadmp/#/idea/238/
Why has something like this sat in user submitted and not moved into planned? Its one of the highest voted items!
And then items that are in the planned phase. Still almost a year and its not here?
Ryan Alier Yes, I agree!
H Media I see what you are saying and its a relatively good mindset.
I think at that point the team would need to review and come to a decision on whats best for the product.
Is it whats best for them internally, or whats best for the people who spent $1000+ on their plugin.
I think regardless of how we look at it, a platform like this in its nature is already a social media replacement.
Ryan Alier bingo with the push notification example you shared above.
Take that and consider that since that request was made Fluent has released several entirely new products.
Yes, the have independent teams - but as a company they are significantly more focused on where the profit ball is bouncing rather than where it's been.
I'm not saying that's bad or wrong, only that expectations for what FC is and will be should take that into account.
Just watched your video from last December. You mentioned another option you were considering at the time. I'm with you on the logic of being able to roll out your own solution with FC.
Going back to the Instagram / iOS example - the thing that really makes any kind of community grow is the network effect where each person you add, brings in more then +1 other people.
The network effect on the other platform you mentioned has been off the charts.
From my perspective, the real question isn't if FC is going to become a viable replacement for the ease of use of any end to end platform. The question is, what kind of result do you really want from the endeavor you're trying to create.
It's something I ask myself more frequently than I'd like admit.
H Media You are spot on with the networking +1.
I have already been told many times with my community that if I want it to work and have the affect I am needing, it needs to be a lot more user friendly in retrospect to something like X or Facebook. In its current state, Fluent Community is not in a position to allow real growth out the gate.
App, notifications, and ease of use.
Currently, we can only get videos by embedding custom iframes or sharing a Youtube video. This would never work for a true community of thousands of people who want to get off of mainstream socials.
Notifications are not as easily customizable, neither for the front end or backend.
I know we are all techies and might be able to whip something up thats custom, but then again, it goes back to frakensteining a setup that we have no idea when it will break or become obsolete.
Shahjahan Jewel I truly hope you understand this sentiment and realization in the open source freedom world we are moving into, and how Fluent Community can be a real stepping stone in this effort.
There are not a lot of missing areas, but a good few that is a make or break for true organic growth.
Ryan Alier Shahjahan Jewel - I think a solid and well maintained roadmap would be the best way for users to know what to expect and decide for themselves if FC is the right for their use cases
H Media Agreed. 1 year with having a feature request at 200+ votes is simply too long for something as important to be sat with no other communication or expectation of whats to come.
Although not a big fan of mobile apps, in this case would makes sense and lazy coders looks good, although chatting with their developer, he said for larger communities, a separate mobile app is best like their https://lazycoders.co/appza/?product_name=appza&plugin_slug=appza
Kevin Trye Yeah I have been eyeballing their "Appza" solution a whole lot more than the "official" mobile app.
Kevin Trye This still feels fragmented for me however. Too much uncertainty for what it would be in the future and best course of action for a proper, stable, production solution.
Ryan Alier Actually, it's amazing that there's only been a handful of downloads for the appza option. Another case of small developers, like lazycoders, not having a good marketing strategy or focus. Their linkage with fluent may solve that problem.
Kevin Trye I think we agree here that their efforts and focus are spread a little thin in the app department.
I personally think a little more market research, especially within the community should have been done LONG before development of any Fluent mobile apps.
Ryan Alier Well, the appza option seems logical and there's been dozens of mobile app building tools for wordpress and websites for many years. I build mine ten years back, which in that case was a flop. But this is different. Integrating with fluent community is not overly difficult. This isn't exactly new tech, once you get around the normal barriers that apple and google have always put up. At the end of the day, they could remove any app from their app stores which means we just have to be more cunning in how the website version works.
Kevin Trye Well thats where i've been at. Right there with you.
There are so many different methods to get an app. Some are more convoluted or nuanced then others, and some work great, some not quite there, and some not at all.
I think my issue right now is that the core of Fluent Community isnt suited best for a proper web app (i.e. push notifications, better DM functionality, etc) let alone a proper mobile app. Then from there we have to start figuring which set of plugins and or custom code works for the time being, while we hope for something more polished. Combine this with the lack of ability for direct video uploads and it leaves me with a lot to desire, and or work on the back end to figure out.
I'd hate to go with one mobile app solution over another, just to have to scratch it for something later down the road.
Who knows, maybe I am thinking on it too deep 😂
Kevin Trye I opted for the highest LTD I could during the public launch at 1000+ because I believe in the idea and vision. Just hope to see a quicker turn around for real community requests and or issues.
Ryan Alier I hear you.... Direct video uploads for example will always be an issue, especially on the mobile. I've successfully used videopress in normal wordpress sites, allowing people to use the wordpress app to take photos and videos, uploading directly, which it then optimises. mux.com and vimeo pro and peertube are other possibilities to optimise video uploads, but it's certainly not viable for fluent and mobile developers to built these tools. They need to use other open source options that are readily available and proven. I've tended to avoid mobile apps the last few years, since most things can be done without a mobile app, although notifications are far easier on an app yet their is a user expectation too. I think for now all we/I can do it try out that lazycoders have on offer and see if it works for me and my particular community needs. Fascinating times. Exciting times.
Like any software, there is always the problem of trying to be all things to all people. However as long as the code base is clean and allows developers to hook in and add special functions, then that's fine. Am also looking at adding in open source video chat and webinar tools like jitsi, mirotalk etc. Me [and Grok] are working through the coding and host effort needed. Again, this would be a members-only feature and need to be paid for, but a nice alternative for groups who want to get away from big tech, zoom, google meet etc. It's not the sort of thing fluent could easily add in as a core due to it overwhelming the host platform requirement, but not hard to integrate.
Kevin Trye I agree for the most part. I think we do need to have a proper polished core application.
My issue lies in uncertainty. Am I going to waste time building a custom integration only for it to come out in a breaking way that causes a pivot?
I agree its hard and cannot be everything for everyone, but I think a proper can of worms was opened when it was decided to create a platform like Fluent Community.
Ultimately I believe the Fluent Community goal should be a proper alternative to big tech. Its not too far away when we really think about it, we just need the focus to be there!
For social networks, there is Meta, VK, or even better, Telegram and Twitter. But from Fcom, you still expect something simpler, something that can help in business.
Artur Abakarov Business or not, at the end of the day this is still a social platform.
If we really want to have a foothold and standout to our users, the platform needs to be on par, or as close as it can get (IMHO) to whats coddled people now for years. Meta, Twitter, Instagram, etc.
Artur Abakarov Yes, but if you're building a private community, without the ads and upsells, the likes of meta, VK, twitter, instagram and telegram are too intrusive, and if we do or say the wrong thing, be taken down, at the whims of governments or big tech. And knowing that every keystroke is monitored and tracked in most of them. Even telegram.
Artur Abakarov since social media, forums have declined a great deal, today, you have mega forums such as reddit, quora, stack exchange, etc so unless you have a year round in-demand niche, then just having a forum may not work for most. As long as Competition exists then people will continue their social media journey.
Kevin Trye nice thought but after years of censorship, tracking, living by their rules, etc. None of this has stopped social media from getting even bigger.
David Scurlock True indeed, although the primary reason is people are becoming sick of mainstream news and propaganda, looking for alternatives. And young people obviously avoid traditional means of entertainment.. But it's still propaganda, just with different goals and objectives. Then you have Microsoft and Google to worry about. The level of tracking and advertising from these alone is intense.
Kevin Trye google can eat Microsoft. These are not the things I worry about. I simply optimize my site the best I can then promote it when am able. I do not obsess or care about the rest of the world.
In general I'm with you on this.
Building FC as an alternative to Mighty Networks or Facebook Groups for industries that get flagged for discussions about controversial topics. While I enjoy a few Telegram groups, I prefer FC. I have one website where it uses a combo of FC & Telegram.
But for a true Social Media alternative, it will take a large following to make it be a true social alternative. Obviously a stable mobile app across both Android and Apple will be required. I'm certain it will come.
Until then, I'm happy being with FC from the beginning. I bought my first Fluent product back in 2020. I've bought a lot of products that haven't scaled and have crashed and burned through the years. I'm incredibly happy that I chose to be Fluent.
Wendy Shoef I think for most building these fluent communities it will not be to replace facebook or telegram, but to give them a safe customised place that members of their club or community can go to without being censored or have endless advertising shown. Some groups may have a few hundred members, others a few thousand. It's actually a huge market. Think of all the tiny groups on FB or telegram that would welcome such a system it their sole aim is to chat with friends they already know or those with similar interests. And without all the normal distractions. The thing is, it's not a 5min install and someone with a few tech skills needs to spend say a week on each to set it up. The mobile app would be nice, but not essential.
Wendy Shoef Im right there with you Wendy.
Kevin Trye You hit the nail on its head.
"it will not be to replace facebook or telegram, but to give them a safe customised place that members of their club or community can go to without being censored or have endless advertising shown".
Thats the goal. We dont need FC to replace these mega platforms, but to be good enough to offer as a nice, uncensored alternative. It still needs some work, and I think we can get there.
I do however think some form of mobile app is necessary.
imo the real replacement for social media (which are owned by a few companies, such as Meta) is based on the Fediverse and distributed servers, run by thousands of entities/companies/individuals etc.
Those servers are run for example on Mastodon. This use the ActivityPub protocol and not only Mastodon can provide this, also others such as GoToSocial, Pixelfed, etc.
There is an ActivityPub plugin for WordPress (so the posts are distributed across the Fediverse) and a team is working on it. It's not a complete replacement for Mastodon for now, as we cannot easily follow each other, but the protocol is there.
IMO, any plugin that could replace social media should integrate the ActivityPub protocol and not reinvent the wheel.
As said in comments above, FluentCommunity is different, because it's not meant for distribution of content across the world, but for creating spaces, often even closed to members.
However I could see an integration with the Fediverse indeed, and this would allow to publish content on the protocol and be discoverable by any other Fediverse instance